[00:00:00] Wayne Schwass: Hello and welcome to the Thrive Podcast series. I'm your host, Wayne Schwass. Thrive is Monash Health's employee mental health and wellbeing program created for our people by our people. Our bespoke program explores the themes of validating that working in healthcare is uniquely challenging, normalising the conversation about mental health, encouraging pause for rest, reflection and regeneration, and creating safe spaces that empower our people to speak up.
[00:00:32] In this series, we talk with some of our people about what this means for them through storytelling and their shared experiences in the hope that that may be helpful to others. In today's episode, I sit down with Jacinta Ra, head of social work and spiritual care to explore the importance of listening.
[00:00:49] To understand now this valuable skill can support individual and team wellbeing. I hope you enjoy the episode. So Jacinta, if I was to ask you a really [00:01:00] simple question to start this conversation, what does your role actually mean and mean to you?
[00:01:06] Jacinta Re: For me, my role as a social worker is really an influencer.
[00:01:11] I. Uh, in terms of not the traditional sense of influences that we know now, but it's really being able to influence change, um, change in people's lives, uh, really using listening. And I, and I know that's what we're here to talk about today. I. Listening loudly to understand people's stories and their contexts.
[00:01:31] For me, in the health environment as a social work leader and a leader, my role is really about helping people, um, maybe reduce some of those barriers that they might find as the professionals that I'm supporting, or the patience to really create the change to better people's lives. And so for me, it's a real privilege to be able to provide that mechanism.
[00:01:52] Wayne Schwass: What does listening to understand. Look like. And how does that play an important role, which you've just touched [00:02:00] on in the work that you and your team do?
[00:02:02] Jacinta Re: So listening to understand in practice is, is active listening. It's making time to truly listen to people. And ensure that you are, uh, not having distractions, that you are, um, providing a space for people where you are not talking.
[00:02:25] So for me, it's less talking, more listening. Listening is, is a skill that you develop. It's, I I don't think it's something we are necessarily even taught as kids. So we're taught to read and write. We are not really taught to, to really actively listen. And that is something that through professions like social work, psychology, counselling, we spend years training in and honing in on, on how to listen.
[00:02:52] Uh, so it is something you've gotta develop. It doesn't always come naturally.
[00:02:56] Wayne Schwass: Yeah, it's definitely a skill because I think for [00:03:00] a lot of us, myself included, I'd like to think I'm getting better, but we think that we listen. But we are not really listening. So in regards to that skillset, you mentioned you've evolved, that you've continually worked on that.
[00:03:16] What does that look like in a practical sense in the day-to-day operations of your role and also the team's role?
[00:03:22] Jacinta Re: I think you've, you've really got to self-regulate. It's really important, and that's self-leadership. So in the practice environment, particularly in the environment that we work in. There are a whole range of competing demands that you are dealing with every day.
[00:03:36] As a leader, you've got really clear deliverables, and then you've got a whole range of things that come out of the blue. They're really unexpected, and so in terms of listening to, um, your people or with people, it is actually just stopping for a minute, taking pause. Being really conscious of how you are feeling, because often, um, when people are talking, you are [00:04:00] listening to respond because it is chaotic.
[00:04:03] And so you are, you're missing probably some of the gems or in that narrative if you listen hard. People are often giving you the answer instead of trying to push that along and get into the, the end agreement or end task. Often the beauty is in actually what, just making that. A bit of additional time in what people are telling you.
[00:04:21] And I think in there you can often see a lot of unintended risks or risks that we need to manage that you might not have understood. It also makes that person feel that what they're saying to you is valuable and it's valid, and that you are gonna take pause and prioritise them in, in, in your day as well to show that you value what they're saying and you want to really hear what they're saying and then look at how you might support them.
[00:04:46] Um, not necessarily going straight to. To actions or often I think we're guilty of saying so. So what do you want out of this conversation? And I think that, you know, that's an excellent question, but for some people it can actually make them [00:05:00] feel like really the only purpose is to really get an outcome when actually sometimes it's actually just spending that time to listen.
[00:05:06] And the magic is, is really having spent that time together, um, and for you as the, uh, receiver of the information to just give people that space.
[00:05:15] Wayne Schwass: Yeah, I really like your answer. Um. Jacinta because what I'm hearing is listening to understand actually gives you context. To be able to understand more broadly or much deeper.
[00:05:27] Jacinta Re: Exactly. So I think if you don't listen to understand, you can really find yourself in high conflict situations. It's really about put yourself in that person's shoes. I. I think we know that the highest reasons that we have conflict in teams or our teams don't perform as well is because people don't feel that there's space to communicate or they're, they're different or diverse opinion isn't heard or valued or included.
[00:05:53] And so I think if you can manage that and really make that a priority, the consequences of that are really positive in that your [00:06:00] team will build connection and trust. It fosters positive team environment and ultimately the outcome that you might wanna see as the leader or manager.
[00:06:08] Wayne Schwass: From a more personal perspective, Jacinta, what shaped your ability to listen, to understand and what was that turning point?
[00:06:15] Or was there somebody in your life that influenced you at a younger age to perhaps I. Start to develop that
[00:06:22] Jacinta Re: look. Absolutely. There's a key, there's a key person in my family. Um, so an uncle of mine who, um, he himself, um, uh, suffered, had ex extensive mental health issues. And so I just really remember, um, you know, your family might say, you know, how are you going?
[00:06:37] And, and we all fall into the trap of, yep. Good. Um, particularly teenagers who don't necessarily wanna have a big conversation, um, with you. And he, he actually approached it really differently with me. So, so he, he would say, how, how are you feeling? Um, and I'd say, good. And he'd say, tell me a bit more about that.
[00:06:53] Um, what does that mean for you? And I think it was reflective on perhaps he'd not had those same responses or [00:07:00] opportunities. And I remember feeling at the time that there was real magic in that, that he got me to open up in, in ways I wouldn't have with others. And I always probably had a bit of a curiosity for the human condition and human behavior.
[00:07:13] And so it did lead me down the, the social work and psychology counseling track. Um, but it's always stuck with me around how. How good that made me feel that he really did see me just differently and that he, he cared about my thoughts, my feelings, my emotions, um, and I just saw the, the beauty and the power in that.
[00:07:31] And I, yeah, I wanted to hopefully be someone that could do that for others as well.
[00:07:35] Wayne Schwass: It's also, um, interesting that, you know, he had his own challenges, but he, he left an indelible mark on you as a young, a young girl, and that sort of influenced the career that you followed. I, I, I'm really. Keen to ask a personal question to finish the conversation, Jacinta, and that is.
[00:07:53] Um, two parts listening to understand is important in a professional, uh, workplace environment. And you've talked, [00:08:00] um, beautifully about the role that that plays. But is it also a skill set that we could apply to ourselves? And if it is, can you give some examples of. You listening to yourself to get an understanding of where I'm at, what's happening at the moment, and do I need to make some decisions to look after myself?
[00:08:17] Because your remit and your responsibility is broad and you have a lot of people that are part of your collective teams, but sometimes people that are at the top leading a, a group of people, um, perhaps. Getting the support that they're offering. So how do you use that skillset to take care of yourself in a professional and personal context?
[00:08:36] Jacinta Re: Such a good question, and I think you're right, Wayne, really that, um, active listening is something or, um, or listening to understand is something that we need to do in all aspects of our lives. Um, and for me personally, uh, being in the social work profession, um, and having worked very early on in trauma work, I learned very quickly how important it is to seek the council of of others and trusted, um, [00:09:00] people.
[00:09:00] Um, I've often probably leaned towards those in my profession. There's something, uh, about, um, feeling. Like-minded. Um, and that people who've in some way walked in your shoes, um, professionally as well. I, I really engage in supervision, so that one-on-one conversation. Um, but I'm also really, 'cause we, we all do it.
[00:09:21] We all, when people are talking, it's really important to sometimes not take on. That personally, uh, and not, not react to that as well. So it's about, so I have had to really hone, hone in on that myself and constantly practice, um, how I might do that. But self-care is, is huge. Um, and absolutely, you know, I think within our organisation we're really clear about the supports.
[00:09:45] Um, that are available. But the one thing I would like to say is that, that's so important, but that that never replaces that one-on-one time, um, with those that you trust, um, as a leader with members of your team. Um, so that, that to me [00:10:00] is an something that can supplement, but that should not replace, um, your responsibility to engage in those, in those conversations with people regularly, uh, as well.
[00:10:09] Wayne Schwass: Yeah. It's a great final answer. Um, which is, uh. Salient and timely for everybody that does listen to this episode, um, on behalf of the organisation and also the patients and the families that you are and your team continue to support. I, I, I, I love the fact that you bring the humanness to the patient experience and, um.
[00:10:31] It's a really important role and, uh, in a very short period of time, I've learned a lot more about you and the wonderful work that your team do. So on behalf of the podcast Thrive Program and more broadly the organisation, we really appreciate your contribution and keep up the great work 'cause it's very, very important.
[00:10:47] Jacinta Re: Thank you so much, Wayne.
[00:10:48] Wayne Schwass: Hey, thanks for listening. We hope that you found something in this episode that helps you reflect on your own mental health and wellbeing, and importantly, our culture of care for our people here at Monash Health. Join us for our next episode [00:11:00] where we explore self-awareness and how this valuable skill not only helps us maintain wellbeing, but it also supports your mental health.
[00:11:07] We look forward to seeing you again soon.
