[00:00:00] Wayne Schwass: Hello and welcome to the Thrive Podcast series. I'm your host, Wayne Schwass. Thrive is Monash Health's employee mental health and wellbeing program created for our people by our people. Our bespoke program explores the themes of validating that working in healthcare is uniquely challenging, normalising the conversation about mental health, encouraging pause for rest, reflection and regeneration, and creating safe spaces that empower our people to speak up.
[00:00:32] In this series, we talk with some of our people about what this means for them through storytelling and their shared experiences in the hope that that may be helpful to others. In today's episode, I sit down with Jane Booth, Deputy Director of Pharmacy, Workforce and Wellbeing to discuss the value of self-awareness and how this valuable skill can not only support wellbeing, but help us navigate our way through challenging times.
[00:00:56] I hope you enjoy the episode. Jane, can you [00:01:00] explain what self-awareness means to you personally and how it's shown up in your journey, including during really challenging times.
[00:01:08] Jane Booth: So I think for me, self-awareness is, you know, really present in the moment, but also aware of the things that are challenging for you and the way that you respond to those, those kind of issues.
[00:01:20] It doesn't mean that you don't do hard things or you're not in difficult situations, but you're aware of how you're likely to respond because that's the part that you have some control over.
[00:01:29] Wayne Schwass: Would it be right to say self-awareness actually allows you to do those hard things at times? I'd like to think so.
[00:01:35] Yeah. In what way?
[00:01:37] Jane Booth: Um, well, I think it allows you to take some of the control back a little bit. I think that because, you know, it's a bit of a cliche in a way, but that you can't control everything that's happening to you, but you can control the way that you respond. And so I think being aware of how you're likely to respond and how you are responding in the moment.
[00:01:54] That self-awareness to me.
[00:01:55] Wayne Schwass: Has it been a skill that you've always had or is that a skill [00:02:00] that you've had to develop?
[00:02:01] Jane Booth: Yeah, it's absolutely a skill you've had. I've had to learn, I. Perhaps now it's a skill that more people are learning, but certainly in my professional journey, I've had to learn it in probably the hard way.
[00:02:12] So I can remember a time about probably 10 or 12 years ago, I was having a lot of, a number of things happen going on for me personally, professionally, it all came to a real head over the course of a couple of months. And ended with me having to take quite a period of time away from work. And to me that was really hitting rock bottom.
[00:02:34] And I didn't really look after myself then, and I wasn't aware enough to know that maybe that was something I should have been considering. And so then when I've had more challenging times since then, I think that I've probably been able to avoid hitting that real rock bottom because I'm becoming better at.
[00:02:51] At picking up the warning signs before you hit the bottom?
[00:02:54] Wayne Schwass: Yeah, I think there's two things that come to mind with your last answer. One is, and this is not to be [00:03:00] critical because I wasn't aware in my own journey, but when you're not aware, it's very hard to understand or identify when things are building up and they can build up quite quickly.
[00:03:14] Absolutely. But also on the other side of that. Through that experience, you develop the self-awareness. Mm,
[00:03:21] Jane Booth: yeah, absolutely. And I think you can't see it when you're in it, but what you can see is what you, what you can do is prepare yourself for the next time. And so, you know, I think, as I say, I hit pretty much rock bottom, almost walked away from the profession.
[00:03:35] Um, and I've been in challenging situations since then that haven't, I guess, been quite as catastrophic because I've been able to manage them a bit better. And manage myself a bit better.
[00:03:47] Wayne Schwass: Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think that's really important. But also you mentioned it gives you a level of control. Mm. So you can influence the situation or decisions that you make, which I think is really important.
[00:03:58] So was that timing in [00:04:00] your life, the precursor for you wanting to prioritise your wellbeing, or was it a different experience?
[00:04:06] Jane Booth: In hindsight, it absolutely was. I wouldn't say that I did anything immediately straight after that time, but it certainly planted a seed in me to be aware, even if this is a concept, and you know, so that's 10 or 12 years ago, and so I'm still very much on the journey.
[00:04:20] But um, yeah, absolutely. I think that's really what brought it home for me.
[00:04:24] Wayne Schwass: Well, it's an ongoing journey. It doesn't stop. Absolutely. Yeah. If we choose it to be that way. What, what were the early signs or, or were there some signs that you'd be comfortable sharing that indicated that you. We're in a difficult situation and you needed to start to think about what you might think about doing for yourself.
[00:04:42] At that time,
[00:04:43] Jane Booth: I think I felt really overwhelmed, exhausted, you know, all the physical signs, your ability to, to cope with even small things. I think lots of people have been in a situation where they feel like there was a hundred things going on at [00:05:00] once, but it's that your resilience isn't there. So even little things seem like a really big.
[00:05:05] Pile of, you know, the pile of rocks in your backpack that you're carrying around.
[00:05:09] Wayne Schwass: Yeah. And, and would I be right in saying that at that time or during that time, there was a, a, a sense or a feeling that you weren't as in control as you would've liked to have been?
[00:05:19] Jane Booth: Absolutely.
[00:05:20] Wayne Schwass: Yeah. It's interesting, Jane, that, um, human beings are interesting creatures by their very nature, but it's not until something significant happens that it puts us into a situation where we have to stop.
[00:05:34] And assess the current situation and then decide or make different decisions about beginning to move that move through that proactively. And I, I'm a, I'm a strong advocate for, it's going and wading through the challenging markers. I call it, the really difficult experiences that allows us to grow and evolve and develop a whole range of different strategies and techniques, which you've clearly done, which is [00:06:00] admirable.
[00:06:01] I just wanna tap into your role as a leader, and we'll get into more specifically your new role, which is very exciting, but can you share some less visible pressures that managers often carry and how self-awareness can help them navigate the mental load that many leaders within Monash Health are dealing with and grappling with on a daily basis?
[00:06:22] Jane Booth: Absolutely. It's a big question. Uh, so two things. So I think, um, as a leader within the pharmacy department and in pharmacy more general, a lot of the work that we do is in the background and only becomes apparent when things go badly wrong. You know, it's easy to assume that there's this sort of blank, this faceless group in the background, not really doing a lot.
[00:06:45] But I think what a lot of people don't realise is how much those people that work in those sort of roles. Really care deeply about the work that they do, and are acutely aware that there are patients at the end of that, even though the patient might be several floors away or on a different [00:07:00] campus. So I think that sort of stress is very real within, um, the pharmacy department and other similar services.
[00:07:07] And then as a manager of people, um, which I guess is more broadly applicable across the organisation. I think again, it's easy to say, oh, management, oh, they don't know. When, what I'm sure most managers are thinking about all the time is the people that they are responsible for and they care deeply about it.
[00:07:29] And I don't think there's a manager in our organisation that gets up every morning and thinks, which decisions can I make to make life really hard for the people that I, that I manage? I think it's quite the opposite. And I know certainly amongst our leadership team, we agonise over decisions and they, and we feel them and we worry a lot about the people that we, that we manage.
[00:07:49] Wayne Schwass: You know what I'm learning, again, I say this consistently every time I'm speaking with somebody like yourself from the organisation, is that healthcare is a dynamic, fast paced, [00:08:00] uh, ever changing and sometimes chaotic. Workplace environment. And I would, I would imagine that most people that work within healthcare more broadly would at various times feel enormous stress and pressure irrespective of the role and the function that people are playing.
[00:08:16] When I, I I, I, I love your new title. It's the Deputy Director of Pharmacy and what's not included in the title, which should be on your, your, uh, name tag, which I saw recently is also workforce and wellbeing. I love that. What does that mean within the pharmacy department? Jane?
[00:08:35] Jane Booth: Thanks Wayne. We, um, in the pharmacy department and in our leadership team, we love, we love a long title.
[00:08:40] So we have, um, now five deputy directors of pharmacy. Um, and my portfolio as a deputy director of pharmacy is workforce and wellbeing. And, um, I've been in this role for. Just over three months. And prior to that I was an assistant [00:09:00] deputy director of pharmacy, um, and also had work, um, workforce and wellbeing in that title as well.
[00:09:06] And we really wanted to make a signal to our department and to the organisation that by putting wellbeing in someone's. Job title, that this isn't just like a nice to have or bit of a fad, that this is something that we are serious about and a sustainable approach to practitioner wellbeing is really important to me, um, and, and really important to our, our department.
[00:09:26] Um, and as far as what that actually means, actually means, that's a, a, a good question. Um, so I am the, um, so I oversee a number of. Roles, um, our workforce. Um, so recruitment, uh, retention, um, how we attract people to come and work for us and how we make it a place that people wanna stay and work for us. And so wellbeing is very much, um, involved with that.
[00:09:52] As part of that, I'm the lead for our wellbeing commu our Wellbeing committee, which is a community of wellbeing champions within pharmacy who drive forward initiatives [00:10:00] at their own sites. Um, I also look after, um, the lead for, um, one of our, or two of our other sites. So the heart hospital and, um, clinical trials sit with me.
[00:10:11] And so it's a good combination and it sort of embeds then the work we do for workforce and for wellbeing, um, within all of our other. Sites, and it's not, it's not something that's happening over here. It's happening for all of us.
[00:10:23] Wayne Schwass: Uh, look, I think it's a sign of organisational maturity that there's a dedicated person in your role that is as part of your remit focusing on wellbeing within the workforce across a number of different departments.
[00:10:39] Which I think is really encouraging, and I loved your terminology, sustainable impact, respecting the fact that you're still probably, by the sounds of it, working that out and what that looks like. But that terminology is really important because it's not about sugar fixes or tick boxing. It's about a sustainable approach, which is both impactful but [00:11:00] also measurable.
[00:11:01] There'll be people that will listen to this conversation, Jane, that might be struggling with. Wanting to or committing to prioritising themselves. And what often comes up with that is, is guilt or some hesitancy around prioritising themselves. What do you think the biggest barrier is that stops people from tuning into their own needs?
[00:11:23] Jane Booth: I think it is guilt, and I think as healthcare professionals, we are great at caring for other people and terrible at caring for ourselves. And I think that's probably true of, of. All healthcare workers to a degree. Um, and I think it is something that, that you learn and I think you, and it kind of comes with years of experience and probably with age a little bit as well, but absolutely.
[00:11:45] It's, it's guilt. Like why, why would I look after myself? There's when I need to be looking after all those people over there. Um, but I think, you know, there's a couple of what are. Becoming really common [00:12:00] expressions, which I think is a good thing, which is that you can't pour from an empty cup and that you need to fit your own oxygen mask first.
[00:12:05] And they're both kind of saying the same thing. You can't make a meaningful contribution to your patients if you are not gonna look after yourself.
[00:12:12] Wayne Schwass: Yeah, I think it's a salient, timely message, Jane, and one that, um, is really important for all healthcare workers within Monash Health, and that is, it's fundamentally important.
[00:12:27] Your ability to perform and function in a challenging, stressful environment, and it's actually an extension if you prioritise yourself. The value and benefit of you being healthier, happier, and more engaged physically, mentally, and emotionally, extends to not only your patients and their families, but also to your teams.
[00:12:47] And conversely, when you go back home after a shift. If you are in that situation where you're help healthier and happier and you're more engaged, then your family or your partner or your children are also getting the [00:13:00] value of that themselves. So I, I don't subscribe to it being selfish. Um, I think it's fundamentally important and really want to encourage people to follow your advice, to give themselves permission to start, to begin to think about what they can do to look after themselves, not the expense of other people or your roles or responsibilities, but.
[00:13:19] We are the pockets of time where you can do something for yourself, which has a positive impact on your mental health and emotional wellbeing. To that point, Jane, what are a couple of things that you do personally that you are comfortable sharing that allows you to look after your mental health, which might resonate with listeners?
[00:13:36] Jane Booth: Absolutely. Well, the first thing I'd say is that there are many, many ways that you can do this and. You can try a whole lot of different things and find the one that works for you. So some people are really into meditation. There's a million apps for that. Some people think that that's a load of woo woo and aren't gonna do that.
[00:13:54] So personally, things that, um, that I like to do, I'm a big, um, pen [00:14:00] to paper journaler at the end of the day. Just a bit of a brain dump. Um, so I like to have, write a big to-do list of things that I need to do tomorrow. Reflect back on everything I've achieved that day, and that sometimes informed your list for the next day.
[00:14:14] Also, just check in with yourself, how are you feeling? And just sort of reset. And I like to do that before I head home for the day. So if I've been on site. Um, before I get in the car and drive home, or when I work from home before I leave, um, this, my workspace so that you're drawing a line on the day.
[00:14:31] And I think that I like the pen to paper catharsis of it. Um, people that I know, well, you know, people that I work closely with will all know that I've just upgraded my pen to paper ness and now have a, um, Kindle as of about a week ago, which replicates that pen to paperless. Um, because I find that that's really, that really helps for me.
[00:14:50] I'm also pretty deliberate about making sure I have downtime. So in the type of media that I consume. So I watch some pretty light TV is, [00:15:00] I'm not gonna say trashy, I'll say some lighthearted TV and podcasts and things like, I don't, um, you know, I'm pretty deliberate about not, not, you know, we, we have serious jobs and I don't like to do serious things once I'm, um, once I'm trying to disconnect.
[00:15:14] So I think finding what works for you is important. Um, who are your supports? What works for you? And, and finding people that you can talk to and to, um, yeah, just talk it out with, I think is all things that really work well for me.
[00:15:29] Wayne Schwass: Yeah. Great. Cheers. I love, I love the simplicity of the strategies that you implement.
[00:15:33] I also really appreciate the comment around finding what works for the individual, what works for you or anybody else could be wildly different. And that's perfectly okay. I'm a big fan of, uh. You and your story. Jane, I've had the pleasure of this interview, but also as part of our storytelling video series and, um, really respected, admire, what you've worked your way through, and just love the fact [00:16:00] that you are the Deputy Director of Pharmacy and that includes a focus on workforce and wellbeing.
[00:16:06] Thank you for being so candid. Thank you for. Normalising these really important conversations and I look forward to hearing the sustainable impact that you are having within the pharmacy department in the future. Thanks for joining us.
[00:16:19] Jane Booth: Thanks, Wayne.
[00:16:20] Wayne Schwass: Hey, thanks for listening. We hope that you found something in this episode that helps you to reflect on your own mental health and emotional wellbeing, and importantly, our culture of care for our people here at Monash Health.
[00:16:31] Join us for the next episode where we explore how to manage day-to-day challenges and how this important skill helps to achieve a better work. Five. We look forward to seeing you again soon.
